Curse

Improvavel · Jan 06, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Now the real question is, does skill actually matter or did A-net intent to make GW a grinding game?
And how does this translate to GW2?

GWs was originally supposed to be a PvP team. I don't think their objective was to differentiate player skill in PvE.

GWs compared to games like WoW is a lot less grinding and a lot more tactical.

Arkantos · Jan 06, 2009, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Sorry but lol. Talking about PvE and balance is a farce. If you wanted PvE to be balanced, remove Duncan the Black's damage-return "skill". Make it so that spirits in Slaver's Exile can't overlap like they do BLATANTLY. Make it so PvE mobs have to follow the same rules as the players. Give them better AI. PvE skills only make it so that the players can stand a chance against these super-powered monster skills and inherent attributes and have fun with it. I don't think that constantly beating against a brick wall against a broken monster skill is very fun. If you remove PvE skills that make PvE fun again, remove the monster skills and imba inherent attributes that Anet felt were necessary to add "challenge" to the game.
I'll repeat my strong point: Pugs and inexperienced players don't "roll" elite areas. They hardly even complete them without serious issues. So your entire point is moot.

No, monsters shouldn't have the same rules as players. They need stronger skills to be a challenge. The thing you're forgetting is the monsters always stay the same. You always know what you're going against, so you can always spec against it.

Sorry for not being more specific. Decent inexperienced players, while accompanied by a couple of good players, will do good in an elite mission with gimmicks. After a run or two they'll most likely be able to roll through it, but by then they wouldn't be so much an 'inexperienced' player. And yes, pugs don't roll elite areas. But both types of players should not be able to complete these areas with the amount of ease they do using gimmick builds.

Now, before you attempt to say they don't do it easily, I mean it's a lot easier compared to a balanced build.

pumpkin pie · Jan 06, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

This is rather interesting, in regards to balancing the game.

Excerpt: Time Has No Meaning ... Online

"John Smedley remembers marveling at how fast players were getting through the content EverQuest's numerous designers had meticulously crafted. "Gamers were solving problems in ways we had never imagined," he chuckles. "We had this dragon Nagafen … a real tough challenge that was designed to be taken down by 20 people. But the first group that tackled the dragon was 50 adventurers strong, and they destroyed Nagafen in five minutes." This early deviation from the plan shook up EQ's design staff. "Our designers' jaws were dropping -- they couldn't believe their baby was being destroyed so easily!"

EQ's designers quickly fixed the problem by giving Nagafen more hit points, but the ordeal quickly pointed out that the design and play mechanics of these MMORPGs would have to take into account accelerated notions of time and an unknown "X" factor of regarding players' actions.

Part of this predicament is the fact that the very medium that created MMORPGs -- the Internet -- has also created an environment where players can solve a difficult quest and then immediately go online and post a full walkthrough for other players.

"In retrospect," Trost admits, laughing at his own naiveté, "It's like 'how did we not see this?'" Although EQ's design is flexible enough to allow rapid changes based on player exploits, when players exploit time via camping or move through quests in record time, their actions can unbalance the game. Additionally, extra pressure gets placed on the game's content designers.

One solution to this problem that the company is beginning to explore in the most recent EQ add-on, Lost Dungeons of Norrath, is the concept of randomization. By randomizing dungeons, monsters, and rewards, Internet walkthroughs will be less effective at allowing gamers to breeze through quests. "

the_jos · Jan 06, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Quote:

Now the real question is, does skill actually matter or did A-net intent to make GW a grinding game?
And how does this translate to GW2?

GWs was originally supposed to be a PvP team. I don't think their objective was to differentiate player skill in PvE.

GWs compared to games like WoW is a lot less grinding and a lot more tactical.

Let me put it this way. I think that with some exceptions every player is able to get things done in PvE GW with only a few conditions (well, it's more complex but you understand where I'm heading):
1. Time
2. Some working brain cells
3. Advice from more experienced players

Time not so much as infinite time, more time to get the required braincells to absorb information and learn what works and what doesn't. And more important, why things work or don't work.
The advice from more experienced players is for speeding up the process.
Teaming up with them or getting information you didn't have will help someone. Most of the usefull advice is on game mechanics, why things work or don't work. One gets experience by doing things, this is where someone needs to invest some time.
This is briefly how (player) skill develops.

Given that GW was intended to be a PvP game would surgest that A-net would put a little effort into (player) skill development.
But with the PvE skills and consumables they did the opposite.
Learning from failure? Not this 1337 tanking CoP assassin, I'm invincible.
And I have this GWAMM title, so I'm just awesome.

Now we fast forward to GW2, which I mentioned on purpose.
We can have two situations there.
First the one where 1337 warrior is having a very good time, because he's still invincible and awesome.
Or the situation where he all of a sudden needs to develop a lot of skill, which he didn't need in the years he played GW1. And he keeps failing till he learned (if he ever does before he quits).
Both situations would leave a fair part of the community unsatisfied.

I really think A-net should start caring about player skill again instead of allowing mindless button smashing.
Why? Because if they don't they'd better make GW2 a solo, off-line game in my opinion. When playing together skill matters. And in my opinion that's something A-net made some mistakes with.
They focussed too much on the individual player and somewhat forgot that Guild Wars is supposed to be played as a team.
And I'm not talking about forcing people to play together, but they didn't even come up with something better than an enhanced party search window.
People have to resort on off-game resources to arrange events and such.

But let's not talk about the past anymore, let's get back to skill changes and how they can be debuffed without destroying them

Improvavel · Jan 06, 2009, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Let me put it this way. I think that with some exceptions every player is able to get things done in PvE GW with only a few conditions (well, it's more complex but you understand where I'm heading):
1. Time
2. Some working brain cells
3. Advice from more experienced players

Time not so much as infinite time, more time to get the required braincells to absorb information and learn what works and what doesn't. And more important, why things work or don't work.
The advice from more experienced players is for speeding up the process.
Teaming up with them or getting information you didn't have will help someone. Most of the usefull advice is on game mechanics, why things work or don't work. One gets experience by doing things, this is where someone needs to invest some time.
This is briefly how (player) skill develops.

Given that GW was intended to be a PvP game would surgest that A-net would put a little effort into (player) skill development.
But with the PvE skills and consumables they did the opposite.
Learning from failure? Not this 1337 tanking CoP assassin, I'm invincible.
And I have this GWAMM title, so I'm just awesome.

Now we fast forward to GW2, which I mentioned on purpose.
We can have two situations there.
First the one where 1337 warrior is having a very good time, because he's still invincible and awesome.
Or the situation where he all of a sudden needs to develop a lot of skill, which he didn't need in the years he played GW1. And he keeps failing till he learned (if he ever does before he quits).
Both situations would leave a fair part of the community unsatisfied.

I really think A-net should start caring about player skill again instead of allowing mindless button smashing.
Why? Because if they don't they'd better make GW2 a solo, off-line game in my opinion. When playing together skill matters. And in my opinion that's something A-net made some mistakes with.
They focussed too much on the individual player and somewhat forgot that Guild Wars is supposed to be played as a team.
And I'm not talking about forcing people to play together, but they didn't even come up with something better than an enhanced party search window.
People have to resort on off-game resources to arrange events and such.

But let's not talk about the past anymore, let's get back to skill changes and how they can be debuffed without destroying them

First, Anet didn't need to care about player skill for PvP. Other humans will enforce it by destroying any player/team not up to the task.

Secondm GWs is a much more complex game than most. In most RPGs u are self sufficient. You have potions, everyone has decent self-heals or something like that.

In GWs u need dedicated players to those tasks.

Before the advent of Heroes, was a pain to find a team. Always short on monks. And could I convince those damn noobs that my N/Mo could heal and protect as good, if not better than monks?!!! Tsk

In Gws u need team. That team to be good need to fulfill a number of roles with 64 skill slots. Thats quite complex. Not many games cap out the number of skills or spells or whatever they call them.

I would also like to get rid of all stupid tank builds, that allow people to think that Fire eles are the leet on damage.

But this game has too much low-level content and some of the higher level is just mobs on consumables. Then people use their consumables too match.

Gwen mobs are awesome. Some of the nm dungeons are very nice and demanding if you don't use consumables and completely overpowered skills.

But has many say HM is crappy design. And NM after you learn it, its just a breeze. And no, you don't need any imba skills for that.

But that is why GW is target to death and to be replaced by GW2. To be designed from scratch with PvE in mind. I bet expansions won't be starter areas, but add-ons to experienced players. I bet the revenue to Anet will come from those add-ons and "Pay for perks" like more storage and such.

What is left from GW is playing with friends, finding one or 2 nice person out there, try to convince people that [[Resurrect] is complete crap and that eles do crappy damage.

Buffs and nerfs will shift game a bit, but the crappy "BIG NUMBER MOBS THAT BREAK THE RULES" are out there already...

Chunk · Jan 06, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I'll tell u what I will do do if arena net followed ur advice and nerfed builds I use. I would quit playing before I would play with retarded pugs. You might hate ppl like me, but I am part of a large population in GW players who has had enough. I am tired of advertising GLF elementilist only to get 3 warriors and assassins trying to join my group. If people can't even read, why should I be forced to play with them.

The game is done. Leave it alone. Let us play in peace. Quit trying to jumpstart the lemon. Just move onto a different car.

Jeydra · Jan 06, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

@above - it'd be a good idea to change 'You Will Die!' to 1 energy, 0 recharge, functionality = kill target monster, yes? Then you'd be able to not play with retarded PuGs yet solo all of the game's areas, you won't have to advertise GLF Elementalist and get 3 Warriors and Assassins, and you won't have to play with anyone you don't like because you can clear every area alone.

Pardon me, but I don't think that change will be good.

I back most changes mentioned in the original post, except Cry of Pain (interrupting in HM is hard enough, to be suffering from a Mesmer hex too is overkill - I'd say remove that condition). I'd also suggest further and nerf a few more skills. Right now PvP skills are all inferior to PvE skills, yet some skills are extremely good in PvE and weak in PvP. Assassin's Promise in particular springs to mind. I'd suggest a nerf to it, with a corresponding stronger version in PvP.

Improvavel · Jan 07, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I'd also suggest further and nerf a few more skills. Right now PvP skills are all inferior to PvE skills, yet some skills are extremely good in PvE and weak in PvP. Assassin's Promise in particular springs to mind. I'd suggest a nerf to it, with a corresponding stronger version in PvP.

I think the objective of splitting the skills in PvE and PvP is to be able to have stronger PvE skills.

After all PvP is between lv 20 guys, with armors ranging from 60-80. PvE has guys a slighty higher level, that do slightly more damage and have more armor and health.

Tyla · Jan 07, 2009, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

And so say all Elitist types. Oh my the numpties want to do Elite Area's.. and they want to use PvE skills.. sacrilege. Elitist types are all for cornering the 'elite' areas for themselves and themselves only.. if your a numpty who's never even set foot in an 'Elite' area... you are COMPLETE SH*T OUT OF LUCK.

The completion of an "elite" area does not require you to be an "elitist". And those incapable of fulfilling that task aren't numpties unless they're inconsiderate arseheads who think everything should be catered to them, even if it means bending rules and definitions. Those "numpties" you speak of also have access - they're free to practice all they want.

Also, you calling those same people "numpties" is, at least in my opinion, a symbol of your own elitism coming into view. Quite elitist, am I right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunk

I'll tell u what I will do do if arena net followed ur advice and nerfed builds I use. I would quit playing before I would play with retarded pugs. You might hate ppl like me, but I am part of a large population in GW players who has had enough. I am tired of advertising GLF elementilist only to get 3 warriors and assassins trying to join my group. If people can't even read, why should I be forced to play with them.

Have you ever considered the possibility that it's not just you who will be changed in terms of direction from H/H and Pugging?

Hugh Manatee · Jan 07, 2009, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Sorry, but when I bought Guild Wars, it was nothing like this. You joined the forum in 2008, so I'm assuming you didn't play Guild Wars in 2005. We bought the game before these overpowered gimmick builds were around.
Yeah it was, the gimmicks were just less obvious, and the mobs were much dumber, like the Sorrows gear tanks, the pet barrage teams, the scores of minions you could control before the death cap nerf, the invincimonks(which still exist) and the AI, could be exploited then just as it is now. They've nerfed some stuff and made some stuff stronger and for every challenge they introduce, they put in a tool you can use to beat it.

All that needs to happen to SY! is they give it a 3 second recharge and a limit to the number of times it's armor can count, just like watch yourself but with +100 instead of +20ish. I've never been in a CoP party so I don't know the mechanics but a recharge boost or energy increase should fix it.

Shadow Form is different, it's like 55/600 is to monks as terra is to eles/mesmers and SF is to assasins as dolyak stance tanks is to warriors, as VwK is to rits, as eternal aura+dwana is to dervs ect. Each class has the ability to tank, and farm, it's just that the SF sin has the ability to hit more stuff then the others but up against the wrong mob or position yourself wrong and it's your ass. They never really nerfed many of the other farming options hard(except the griffons, the prot bond zealots fire, the spirit bond and trappers' spirits were hit), and as it is now SF is much harder to maintain and farm with, it's on par with 55 monks which puts it right in line with the other classes' tanking/farming options.

The consumables are just fun, first wintersday, they threw in the candy, and since then I always wanted the ability to manufacture them year round instead of hoarding during holidays, and now I can, it's a gold sink, a place to spend leftover skillpoints, a nice bonus, completely unnecessary, but nice, and a commodity to trade. They could hit them so you can only have 1 effect up at once like with the summoning stones, but otherwise they equalize you with the hard mode mobs(which were poorly implemented, I like what that one guy said, they should have randomized their bars a little and made the party more divers, like each mob should be a self contained GvG team or at least as diverse ans the slaver's dwarves or EtoN charr)

It's like these guys say, if they hit one gimmick they'll invent a new one, run that, till they get bored with the game, you can't browbeat players to run balanced untill it's worth it to run balanced. Make it WORTH running a balanced build, balanced the mobs so they have contingencies to kill gimick enchants like SF, 600/55, terras or can hit through it, and all of a sudden the cash per hour of the gimmicks drops and the balance goes up. THEN and only then can you start talking about reworking SF into a decent skill(like maybe make it like the new ether prism, make it make you invincible for a short time, but you deal 0 damage for the duration)

I Jonas I · Jan 07, 2009, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Shadow Form is different, it's like 55/600 is to monks as terra is to eles/mesmers and SF is to assasins as dolyak stance tanks is to warriors, as VwK is to rits, as eternal aura+dwana is to dervs ect. Each class has the ability to tank, and farm, it's just that the SF sin has the ability to hit more stuff then the others but up against the wrong mob or position yourself wrong and it's your ass.

That might be true, except that it really isn't. Under shadow form you're basically invincible. Unless you are going up against people with traps, smite monks (and your team brings a lot of hexes like dumbasses), or Illusionary Weaponry there's pretty much no way you can die. At least 55 and 600 monks's are vulnerable to enchantment stripping, but SF is way too imbalanced for PvE.

Lady Lozza · Jan 07, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

It's like these guys say, if they hit one gimmick they'll invent a new one, run that, till they get bored with the game, you can't browbeat players to run balanced untill it's worth it to run balanced. Make it WORTH running a balanced build, balanced the mobs so they have contingencies to kill gimick enchants like SF, 600/55, terras or can hit through it, and all of a sudden the cash per hour of the gimmicks drops and the balance goes up. THEN and only then can you start talking about reworking SF into a decent skill(like maybe make it like the new ether prism, make it make you invincible for a short time, but you deal 0 damage for the duration)

Hey all, I'm a noob because I'm fence sitting on this one.
It isn't that I don't think that the skills are OP. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that there are a LOT of OP skills out there. I'm fence sitting, like I did for a lot of the Ursan argument, because I don't believe that changing the skills will change the game 1) in the intended manner, or 2) in a good way.

You see I remember the original game too. I remember how "non-gimmicky" it was. How "balanced" every team I came accross was. I remember how I made good friends with the hench because no one ever wanted a mesmer in their team. My ranger too often had a hard time finding teams. In fact right at the beginning in PvE if you weren't a part of that holy trinity, you did everything with hench.

I'm sorry if it makes me a noob to say, I wasn't all that fond of the "good old days" but I really wasn't. Here was this great game and I could never find anyone to play with. With the exception of that team in Abaddon's who failed at Willa 3 times before they would take a mesmer along.

I'm sure there will be a 1001 replies to this post saying, "mesmers suck in PvE", "mesmers are PvP only", etc. But I rather enjoy playing my mesmer and the difficulty of getting into groups back in the "good old days" makes me sorry that anyone would wish that they would return.

I don't disagree that these skills are OP, in fact SoI is also OP and I abuse the hell out of it. But I do not see how changing these skills will made the game "better". It will not force people to group. It will not force people to run balanced. Every time an HA gimmick gets nerfed someone always says more balanced teams will play, but it NEVER happens. A new gimmick comes up, an old gimmick returns, balanced teams are still a rarity outside of GvG (and even then are they all that common?).

As it stands there are pug teams that I can get into if I want to do an elite area outside of a guild team. Pug teams that will at least know what they are doing, even if it is a crude team build. Change this, go back to the "good old days" and it will be tanks, and monks, and renewal nukers, and anything else is left out in the cold.

So I sit on the fence. Yes these skills are OP. But this late in the game I don't think changing them is going to do anything except push more players out of the game.

Re: bad players shouldn't be able to complete elite areas, I'd agree if "good" players were capable of making a distinction between "bad" and "inexperienced" players. Many "good" players play in guild teams and don't have the time of day for "inexperienced" players. "Inexperienced" players can't get experience if "experienced/good" players won't lend a hand.

Hugh Manatee · Jan 07, 2009, 04:51 AM // 04:51

^yeah lozza also brought up something I forgot to mention, the "balanced teams" that existed before the 'gimmicks' did mostly consist of their own 'gimmick', 2-3 tanks, 2-3 nukers and 2-3 healers with an occasional wild card thrown in if they couldn't find the third tank or nuker. The "balanced" groups the OP mentions would leave a lot of classes in the dust as far as PvE goes unless they can conform to one of these roles. If they balanced the mobs so that stuff like mesmers had something to do, or gave the mobs better threat assessment and agro AI things like midline melee, assassins, dervs and such, would be more viable.

As for SF, I went on a few tengu and raptor runs, maintaining SF in it's current state is about the same as maintaining a 55 in GoK or the first city. you have to be very careful wit the juice you dedicate towards killing stuff VS the amount you spend to maintain SF. As for them not being vunerable, It's not my fault 90% of PvE mobs have retarded builds. There's tons of stuff that could hurt a SF sin it's just nothing in the game uses it(or uses it wisely, like the inferno imps outside LA or the Kournan Scribes in the fortress of Jahai, they have PBAoE but if you stand just outside of their range they won't hurt you, they'll still try to spam it and it looks cool to see when it's not hiting you but they should be charging up on you before they try and use it, or have something that will let them do that like the Skeleton Wizards in Shards of Orr, or like the outcast cultists do with their swords, and the flame djin with their FDS). The problem isn't the skill, it's the environment you use the skill in. Like the Griffons they were a dumb mob, so they took them out and put in the scarab things. After you hit LA in NM and everywhere in HM mobs should look like Summit dwarves.

Also leave soul reaping alone, if they hit necroes any more they're going to be to PvE what mesmers once were....

Arkantos · Jan 07, 2009, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Also leave soul reaping alone, if they hit necroes any more they're going to be to PvE what mesmers once were....

I don't believe you understand what changes my soul reaping suggestion makes. The only thing it will be truly hurting is groups with 3+ necros. Single, and even dual necros are being buffed, if anything.

A11Eur0 · Jan 07, 2009, 06:40 AM // 06:40

And what if I want to vanquish from Rankor's to Beacon's and cap FoC on the way, and bring along 2-3 of my necro buddies to cap it with me while also working on their vanquishing? They'll suffer because of your hatred for yet another fun build that removes some of the grind from GW.

zwei2stein · Jan 07, 2009, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

And what if I want to vanquish from Rankor's to Beacon's and cap FoC on the way, and bring along 2-3 of my necro buddies to cap it with me while also working on their vanquishing? They'll suffer because of your hatred for yet another fun build that removes some of the grind from GW.

Is this how you do irony? Anyhow.

Either Arkantos idea works and you would ... gasp ... have to use emanagement. [GOLE], [OOB] ... [signet of lost souls]

However, without cap on energy gains (he removes cap 3/15 cap, he adds energy gain to spirits), your three buddides would probably have at least same kind of energy than before, but i think they would be getting more than before.

BoondockSaint · Jan 07, 2009, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Over all your post has very valid points and thoughtful consideration to what can be done to balance PVE.

While I agree that certain things need to be changed in PvE to make it more balanced I believe that some of the problems lye beyond fixing game issues.

First, the way guild wars is structured, it can be very difficult to offer incentives for many players to take on the elite areas. Take DOA for example, with the exception of armbraces, (which can now be bought and a relitivly low price) it is not a very profitable run anymore.

You take out say the pve skills that allow a large, (relitively speaking) amount of the players to accomplish this task, (high end area's) and then the area is a complete waste. To continue this point, even if you do have a team bar that you know can complete the area player skill is still involved, for better of for worse.

Now this is just my opnion, but we all know what happens when the HB monk does not know what he is doing or any other class for that matter. From what I observed, that is not how, say, WoW works. Once you get the best set of weapons and level up, there is not a ton of skill that is required to play your class. (not a burn on WoW just an observation, PvP also does not count here.)

Second, the guild wars player base is very spread out, so there may be enough decent people in GW to do Urgoz without pve skills but many have migrated to vs farming and dungeon running.

Finally, there is one resorce that simply makes the game easier no matter what we do and that is called the internet, specifically, wiki. No matter how well you balance PvE the player base will find some sort of gimic. As mention before, unlike PvP, which is ever changing, PvE stays some what the same making is by its nature less difficult in many ways. (I pvp and pve)

My last point and many people disagree with me here, is that I think titles and PvE skills were a good idea. It is debatable how some should be balanced, but I really enjoyed what they did, and I thought it brought a new life to PvE. The titles also keept many people playing and created situtions were pugs or at least guild groups were more likly to form to do some sort of title hunting. (Though there still is not enough players to do everything.)

Over all I would like to see some balance, but at the same time I believe Anet will have to come out with some other way to breath life into pve with all the preposed nerfs.

Improvavel · Jan 07, 2009, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I don't believe you understand what changes my soul reaping suggestion makes. The only thing it will be truly hurting is groups with 3+ necros. Single, and even dual necros are being buffed, if anything.

I've a better mechanic. Restrict number of same profession in a party to 2 or 1...

That was just to kill triple necro hero, that is hardly a monstrous lightning fast unstoppable force, that could be easily achieved with other heroes if not for their completely crappy AI, and that any human groups can match and surpass.

the_jos · Jan 07, 2009, 12:07 PM // 12:07

@ Lady Lozza,

I played mesmer for most of my GW time and never had much problem finding a group to play with in the time my first guild was inactive (the first year I played).
There were some exceptions, mainly FoW and UW. But part of that was because many teams were not playing those, they were farming them.
Did you ever try to enter ToPK without a ranger, monk or necro in let's say 2006?
Almost impossible, not because it could not be done, but because every PUG group was farming it and not playing it.

The one thing I learned there is that something that really matters is a group of players you play with regular. Could be a guild, but till about a year ago my friendslist was packed with PUG players I had teamed up with a couple of times and thought were good.
And I know several of them did the same and put me on their FL.
This allowed me to do stuff in PUG teams with non-preferred professions.

I think this is something many players underestimate.
GW is partly about who know you and the way you play. If they don't know you they will take the 'proven' way, PUG builds.

I still take PUGs in a team once in a while, both HM and NM.
And I keep looking at their gameplay, a bad habit from when I was my guilds recruiter.
After one or two missions/quests/dungeons I know if they are good enough and they will get on my friendslist if they don't mind.
And that could lead to an invite in a guild team that wants to fill a spot.
Not as profession, but as role. I don't care if a nuker is mesmer, ele, necro or Rt or whatever.
As long as they know how to play and fit in the team I'm fine.
Experienced players still team up with random players once in a while.
Sometimes for fun, other times to scout for decent new players for their guild or friendslist. You never know who you run into.

Test Me · Jan 07, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

For each point of Soul Reaping, you gain 1 Energy whenever a creature near you dies. You gain half of that energy when a spirit or minion dies. Your energy gain is divided by the number of necromancers in the party.

I find your post both amusing and sad.

First off: how much is 6x7 = ?
How many people know that?

Read your description of the attribute. Then read it again. Then again. Do you get what it means? What it does?

So you complain about most people not being good at this game but you want to change an already complicate attribute to something that requires 3 conditions in its description and people to understand that the more necro you bring the worse they perform.

Hmmm... and currently people don't even get what "blind" means.

Most (all?) of the changes you suggest are over complicating the skills to the point that you need to have a PhD in GW to understand. "This skill will do this, if condition 1 and condition 2 or condition 3."

GW is far complicated already. It doesn't need more of that. But why is it that 90% of the people prefer these "good to go" builds?
- for once, it doesn't require 3h to form a team, and it doesn't require a team lead to know what builds each member to run and so on. Who has time to wait to fill the last party spot with a player that has the *exact* W build your team needs? And then just discover he has the build but no knowledge of how to use it and fail in the first 5 mins. Only to discover that by the time you get sent back to the outpost everybody left and you need to start forming your "precious perfect balanced team all over again".
- there is no need to argue/convince other people that your build actually works - there will always be people to know better than you what you need to bring
- there is no need to try forcing other people to run the build you want them to run - if you are one of those people I was talking about (that know better what the others should bring)

With these builds you can actually play. Everybody has their "homework" done and the "right" build. They ping, everybody sees and knows the build, there is no discussion over it, you get all party filled, you leave and play. It works.

Now you got bored and you want it to work differently. So whose problem is that? Is that your problem, the game's problem or of all the rest of the people playing this game? Always blame it on the rest of the world I guess: "It's not me, it's the entire world that is doing it wrong."

So your solution, let's nerf it so that all the rest of the world can't do what they do today and will be forced to play GW the way *you* want it. However *you* don't need the rest of the world to play it any different, all you need is to get 7 friends and play whatever way you like.

There is no one forcing you to use consumables, cryway, necros or any other thing. Then why would you want to force anyone out there *not* to use consumables, cryway, necros etc. Would that gain you anything? I doubt it.

Let the world be and play the game the way you want with the people you want. You will never be able to play the game the way *you* want by forcing everybody else to "not to this and that". If that was the case, than you would probably play this game alone or with just a couple of people more that shared your tastes.

I for one, like the options cons, pve skills, 3 necros etc give me. And I only use them when I (and the rest of my party) *choose* to. I don't know, I just like options, I'm kind of weird I know.